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Discussion: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS)

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amy_c	Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 20 2009, 11:46 PM EDT Okay, so what did everyone think? I have mixed feelings. It was epic, had some outstanding moments, but cheesy in parts to me. Personally, it could have ended right as they flew over the moon and found Earth and I would have been satisfied. And the very end? Robots are evil, folks. Sorry it took us years to really drive that home, lol. I'm super-psyched about Caprica, though, and I will probably watch this final episode again to see what else I take away from it. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you? Keyword tags: None
tearssilver	1. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 20 2009, 11:51 PM EDT So. I think that I may have dehydrated myself... but that's ok. I was very disappointed that Kara did not go and live happily ever after with Lee. And with the death of Laura, I feel like I've lost a part of me. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
AdmiralKirk	2. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 21 2009, 12:30 AM EDT \| Post edited: Mar 21 2009, 12:33 AM EDT That was awesome. Like star wars crossed with the last MASH. I have to watch it again and again. I was a bit disapointed in Kara's ending, though it was fitting given Sam's fate. I wish there had been more about who her father was, how she knew the watchtower song, and perhaps who the heck the boxed Cylon Daniel was. It's like they dangled that out there, and never went anywhere with it. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Badmutherfrakker	3. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 21 2009, 5:26 PM EDT "So. I think that I may have dehydrated myself... but that's ok. I was very disappointed that Kara did not go and live happily ever after with Lee. And with the death of Laura, I feel like I've lost a part of me." Yeah even though we knew it was going to happen it still hurt like hell to see Laura die the only peace that I had was knowing that she died peacefully and happy I also feel like Kara and Lee should have settled down i mean it was obvious they were meant for each other. and for tha matter could put up with each other. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Badmutherfrakker	4. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 21 2009, 5:36 PM EDT "That was awesome. Like star wars crossed with the last MASH. I have to watch it again and again. I was a bit disapointed in Kara's ending, though it was fitting given Sam's fate. I wish there had been more about who her father was, how she knew the watchtower song, and perhaps who the heck the boxed Cylon Daniel was. It's like they dangled that out there, and never went anywhere with it. " yeah they left alot of unanswered questions at the end 1. who the frak is daniel and what about him? 2. what was with that whole kara just dissappearing into thin air crap? 3. Was the cylon colony completely destroyed or are there still some out there? 4. Gaius and caprica 6 (head versions) still around after 150,000 years later? the whole thing just leaves you with an uneasy feeling I mean there are some things that make give you a complete feeling but there are some things that leave you with a big "WTFrak" Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DRoseDARs	5. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 21 2009, 8:15 PM EDT "yeah they left alot of unanswered questions at the end 1. who the frak is daniel and what about him? 2. what was with that whole kara just dissappearing into thin air crap? 3. Was the cylon colony completely destroyed or are there still some out there? 4. Gaius and caprica 6 (head versions) still around after 150,000 years later? the whole thing just leaves you with an uneasy feeling I mean there are some things that make give you a complete feeling but there are some things that leave you with a big "WTFrak"" One thing that needs to be noted is that the original BSG played heavily off of Mormon religious themes and even had the Ship of Lights beings. New BSG reinterpreted all of that as an unseen God who guided prophesy and sent angels to lead the Colonials to a world that one day would be called Earth by it inhabitants. 1. Daniel was presumably Kara's angel, bearing a great deal of similarity with her father whom left when she was a child. They played up how some of Daniel's idiosyncrasies were like her father's. Gaius and Caprica 6 also both had angels, in the form of the other. Begs your #4 question: 150,000 years later, where those Gaius and Caprica or their angels strolling through New York City? 2. Kara died just as Lee saw her. Her jump must have screwed up in that dust cloud/nebula, killing her but also delivering her to "Earth" in the process. God resurrected her as an angel to guide the Colonials along the path to their final home and quite literally their end. Hera is our Mitochondrial Eve, making her mother to all modern Humans. The other 38,000 Colonials probably contributed as well, but Hera was the only one who mattered in our evolution. 3. In all likelihood, the Cylon colony was knocked out of its orbit and was not recoverable being so close to the event horizon of a black hole. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DRoseDARs	6. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 21 2009, 8:41 PM EDT Ran into character limit; continuing: 3. We also know the Cylons occupied at least Caprica and New Caprica with Colonial survivors on both after the Colonial fleet left. Until Moore gives us more story, we can assume the Human Cylons were never able to recreate resurrection technology and as such are long-dead. The Metal Cylons may have fared better (being mostly machine rather than mostly organic) and probably struck out for a distant part of the galaxy far from Humans; I think we can assume they left the Colonials and our primitive ancestors alone and in peace. I though Moore did a good job rectifying nBSG with oBSG on the religious front, but also did a good job rectifying our Earth and our species with their Humans. It's implied that, were it not for the Colonials and Hera, modern "Humans" wouldn't look they way the do now and wouldn't even be Humans, but a separate-though-similar hominid (sapien?) species. It's not a case of Humans evolving more than once, it's a case of Humans evolving elsewhere (which is a Mormon and oBSG theme) and interbreeding with a genetically compatible alien sapien (hominid?) species, evolving into us looking similar to them (which is not a Mormon or oBSG theme). One thing that caught me though was the exchange between Gaius and Caprica (or their angels?) when talking about God. I forget the exact dialogue, but Caprica gently scolded Gaius for calling God "God" saying "He doesn't like to be called that." Wait, what? They both called God "God" throughout the series (as did their angelic doppelgangers), so that's a really odd line. What, is God Prince and wants to be identified with an unpronounceable symbol rather than, you know, a name? Post reply 0 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
intrepid	7. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 21 2009, 9:38 PM EDT "Okay, so what did everyone think? I have mixed feelings. It was epic, had some outstanding moments, but cheesy in parts to me. Personally, it could have ended right as they flew over the moon and found Earth and I would have been satisfied. And the very end? Robots are evil, folks. Sorry it took us years to really drive that home, lol. I'm super-psyched about Caprica, though, and I will probably watch this final episode again to see what else I take away from it. " I too have mixed feelings about the end, and I would have been perfectly happy if they had ended with finding Earth and leaving us in the dark as to what point in history/future is was. We ended on a whimper, and I can't help thinking what the point of it all was. They escape the destruction of their civilization just to fade away into history and primitivism? They may as well have stayed on their ships and gone into the sun with them! They chose to eek out an existence in the dirt and to live a life of hardship and an early death. Sorry, I just can't understand that. Adama lives out his life alone talking to Lara's grave? Lee will explore the world until he dies, no doubt from a minor accident that produces an infection that can't be treated because they gave up modern medicine. What they went though and what they learned was an epic story to rival the works of Homer. This ended with them fading away into time, to be forgotten, their story's untold after a few generations, like it was unreal, like it never happened. A sadder ending I couldn't even conceive! Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Green-Arrow	8. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 22 2009, 1:39 AM EDT Loved it. It didn't answer every question, but I still found it satisfying. I did think the survivors embraced the return to a primitive life rather abruptly, but then again, after all they'd been through, Adama might have been right about the "clean slate" thing. Three things that nag at me a bit: 1) Adama says goodbye to Lee with the understanding that he won't be returning? Wouldn't families want to stick together on the new Earth? Going their separate ways like that, after all they'd been through, makes no sense at all to me. I could see them living some distance apart, sure, but wouldn't they at least keep in touch? 2) Surely there are enemy Cylons aplenty still out there -- Racetrack's recon mission photographed two baseships jumping in and out of the colony's "parking spot," yet there were no baseships present at the big final battle. So they'd still have to be out there, and probably crewed by more Cavils, Dorals, Simons, hybrids, and centurions. Not going to last long without resurrection, nor are they going to find Earth without Hera's sheet music, but still. 3) Baltar and Caprica's epilogue was pretty heavy-handed. I don't think we needed them to underscore the fact that Hera was Mitochondrial Eve, nor to hammer on the fact that Earth's civilization was heading very much in the same direction as the colonies. I think the images and news stories alone made the point. Of course, it is interesting that these two "angels" (?!) have been keeping an eye on mankind throughout the millennia, and I also found the line "You know it doesn't like that name" fascinating. Still, great finale -- and a significant counterpoint to the show's ever-increasing darkness. Nice to see it end on a (relatively) optimistic and hopeful note. I'm ready to crack out the miniseries and start all over again. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
merelley	9. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 22 2009, 7:50 AM EDT When Baltar and Caprica are talking at the end, I thought they were referring to "the plan" rather than the name of God. Caprica said something about God's plan and Baltar replied you know he doesn't like that name. Not he doesn't like to be called that, but doesn't like that name. So I thought they meant the term "God's plan". Like it is a plan to have this keep happening and the humans have no choice in the matter to break the cycle. Post reply 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you find this valuable? Do you?
purrduedvm	10. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 22 2009, 10:40 AM EDT I was at once happy with it but then again, not. I thought it had several "climatic" moments where I thought "ok, THIS is how they are going end it." Then it kept going. 1. I too, questioned why after all that, some didn't stay together - notably Lee and his father. I understood taking Laura on the ride and burying her where he did but I didn't "see" him being alone up there, esentially quitting on life. My husband joked to me that "well, they've spent a ton of time together." ...they are sick of each other? I don't think it was really quality time though! 2. I really thought Kara and Lee would've and should've been together in the end. 3. Would love to know what the comment "he doesn't like that name" means too. merelley brings up a point I hadn't thought of. 4. Hera is half human/half cylon but then what...there's a drop of cylon blood in all the modern day humans? It didn't make me feel like the Cylons were actually needed to have humans survive...there were enough of them plus the natives. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
ByYourCommand	11. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 22 2009, 3:32 PM EDT great ending overall, tied up a lot of loose ends. I agree with with a lot of what's been written here..especially about everyone's desire to split up after all they've been thru...huh? So what do they do with their small ships that took them to earth? toss them in the river along with all the other 'unwanted' technology? that whole tone of wanting to start with a clean slate- only to fast-forward 150,000 years to see man living in a technologically advancing world seems like a slap in the face to their intentions and is pointless. they could have skipped the whole NYC bit and ended it with Hera frolicking in the grass. It's worth mentioning that it's no accident that they (the show's creators / producers) chose the grasslands of Africa as the backdrop for their new life. I think is acted as a metaphor, calling attention to the fact that man (Homosapien) in fact did originate on the African continent. my only really big complaint is the mood of the exchange between Cavil and the people in the CIS on Galactica when "negotiating" Hera's release for resurrection technology..it all just seemed soooo cheesey. Cavil is a badass and is way too intelligent, yet they made him look naive and weak in that scene- only to commit suicide?? how ridiculous! clearly Cavil had to go, but it could have been done in a way that showed him being courageous. Lastly, so are we to believe that the cunning and malicious Caprica 6 "angel" that tormented Gaius since the beginning, all of a sudden is all good and righteous at the end? WTF?? It was a nice revelation that BOTH Gaius AND Caprica 6 were followed by their spiritual counterparts. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
amy_c	12. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 22 2009, 9:16 PM EDT "Lastly, so are we to believe that the cunning and malicious Caprica 6 "angel" that tormented Gaius since the beginning, all of a sudden is all good and righteous at the end? WTF?? It was a nice revelation that BOTH Gaius AND Caprica 6 were followed by their spiritual counterparts. " Ugh, that drove me crazy too! Honestly, I loved the first season because it was a tense, realistic drama that just happened to be set in space. It got a little too metaphysical for me by the end, although I still loved the show. Something that hasn't been mentioned yet -- after all that, Cavil eats his gun?! It happened so fast, too! P.S. - Was Starbuck an angel or an anthropomorphic pigeon? We may never know... Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DRoseDARs	13. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 22 2009, 10:02 PM EDT \| Post edited: Mar 22 2009, 10:04 PM EDT "Something that hasn't been mentioned yet -- after all that, Cavil eats his gun?! It happened so fast, too! P.S. - Was Starbuck an angel or an anthropomorphic pigeon? We may never know... " Yeah that was ... odd. Anyway Kara was indeed an angel made flesh. "God" brought her back after her death (and we know for a fact that she was very, very crispy dead) when her Viper exploded, crashed and burned on the 13th Tribe's Earth. How'd she even get to that Earth? Wormhole or God's hands? "He" even gave her a shiny new Viper to fly (it REALLY bothers me that no one seemed to focus on that little issue, never mind Kara; the writers just glossed right over it after the initial novelty). That right there pretty much settles the issue: The Cylons didn't give her one, she didn't just find or make one on 13th Tribe Earth, and so far the only aliens we're aware of are some edible algae and the fact that Humans evolved on Kobol, whom later settled on other planets with whatever indigenous lifeforms were there, including life on our Earth. If the "Cylon God" or the "Gods of Kobol" are in fact more aliens, we'd have no idea either way. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
Green-Arrow	14. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 22 2009, 11:20 PM EDT "After all that, Cavil eats his gun?! It happened so fast, too! " By the time Cavil reaches the bridge, he's already lost. There's no way he's getting Hera. It's over. Everything that happens from that point forward is the act of an extremely desperate man trying to cling to any possible hope of immortality (the prospect of permanent death is a pill he cannot swallow). What Tigh and other Five offer him is an extreme act of grace and reconciliation far beyond anything he deserves, or would offer if the tables were turned. It just shows how different the Final Five are from the other models -- while One through Eight behave often like undeveloped, immature, incomplete individuals, the Five are in fact more human than most humans. When it all goes bad, and it's finally crashing down on Cavil, his last shred of hope for immortality is obliterated, he ends up taking his own life, which in many ways is the perfect death for him, because it's so bitterly ironic. It's no blaze of glory, no great final significant act... it isn't even particularly memorable -- it's a desperate, cowardly, hopeless lashing out at the futility of his situation. The "Frak!" he utters at the last moment is perfect. Remember that the Cylon's attack on humanity was all Cavil's doing -- he's been pulling the strings ever since he got "rid" of the Final Five, and now, to his plan unravel so completely, to see it go so horribly and thoroughly wrong... he's been in control for so long, and at the end the only he thing he still has control over is the manner of his death. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
intrepid	15. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 23 2009, 3:15 AM EDT I thought maybe while he didn't have the technology to resurrect, that doesn't necessarily mean their consciousness still isn't transfered to some sort of storage device. Perhaps he thought that the final five had downloaded enough information that it might still be possible to recreate resurrection one day. Post reply Do you find this valuable?
DRoseDARs	16. RE: Series Finale Discussion (SPOILERS) Mar 23 2009, 5:32 AM EDT \| Post edited: Mar 23 2009, 5:33 AM EDT Perhaps it was simply Moore's and the writers' way of implying that the Cylons would cease hunting the remaining Colonials. They doggedly chased the survivors for 5 years. 150,000 years is a long time for the Colonials to be utterly helpless and with no means of escape should Cylon forces arrive in New Earth orbit. Post reply Do you find this valuable?